Aftermarket Block- Adds Power or Nah ?! 

"DatassunTX" (datassuntx) 02/13/2018 at 11:55 • Filed to: None

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Alright folks . An argument in our shop the other day leads to this post. Trying to see what ya’lls thoughts are on this concept..

Concept: A aftermarket block made of higher grade metal will flex less and in turn create more power to the wheels.

Person 1 Logic: Less cylinder wall flex creates a more powerful combustion which turns into more measurable hp at the wheels.

Person 2 Logic: a 4.030 bore is a 4.030 bore no matter if it’s an aluminum stock block a cast Iron stock block or aftermarket Billet - Makes no measurable power at the wheels.

Person 3 Logic: Has to be better because it’s expensive. (person 1&2 SMDH)

Let us know your thoughts and we’ll check back at lunch time.

Shoop > DatassunTX 02/13/2018 at 12:04

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My guess would be negligably (???) better

DucST3-Red-1Liter-Standing-By > DatassunTX 02/13/2018 at 12:06

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I would think more flex would produce less power because you are creating space between the piston and cylinder, but that’s my un-educated guess

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > DatassunTX 02/13/2018 at 12:08

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#1 is probably technically right, though how much difference it makes I dunno.

#2 is probably right in the real world. Again, dunno.

#3 won’t always be wrong but their approach is completely ass-backwards.

My own opinion is while the stiff block definitely won’t hurt, the bigger thing is definitely the displacement as far as making more power goes. But the Aluminum block can make for more usable power because it’s lighter than an iron block.

Party-vi > DatassunTX 02/13/2018 at 12:09

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How about Person 4 Logic: an aftermarket block has better journals and passageways for out-of-the-box lubrication and cooling than decades-old engine castings and that would make more sense than cylinder wall flex or whatever other engine voodoo gas-huffers have been going on about

HammerheadFistpunch > DatassunTX 02/13/2018 at 12:10

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Alloy Vs cast? I think they are way off base suggesting that the way the material is made (billet vs cast) matters more than the material itself...and even then the modulus of the materials is going to matter way less than the thermal properties.

Moral of the story is that if there is a hp gain, its never going to be noticable. Its like putting in a forged rotating assembly with the same dimensions and compression and expecting more power...thats not really why you do it or how it works

DatassunTX > Party-vi 02/13/2018 at 12:11

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Person 1 is a ford guy

Person 2 is a LS guy

Person 3 doesn’t have a race car...

random001 > DatassunTX 02/13/2018 at 12:12

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It’s...that.....but.....sigh...

No. Cylinder wall flex? Really? No.

DatassunTX > HammerheadFistpunch 02/13/2018 at 12:12

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“amen” - Person 2

Nibby > DatassunTX 02/13/2018 at 12:12

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hey do you have any recordings of your granada’s tone while driving

lone_liberal > DatassunTX 02/13/2018 at 12:14

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No more power but better able to handle high power/RPMs for longer duration.

Party-vi > DucST3-Red-1Liter-Standing-By 02/13/2018 at 12:18

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There is already space between the piston and cylinder, more-so in higher performance engines. That’s what you have piston rings for.

Wacko > DatassunTX 02/13/2018 at 12:20

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the way i see it is

same power, but less weight

CalzoneGolem > DatassunTX 02/13/2018 at 12:21

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Sounds like an idea for an episode of engine masters.

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > DatassunTX 02/13/2018 at 12:22

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Less weight, better lubrication, better cooling, stronger/capable of handling more stress/power? Sure. Everything else equal, does the block itself make more power? No.

promoted by the color red > DatassunTX 02/13/2018 at 12:22

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How about the fact that it’s built to better tolerances and with better materials than a mass-produced factory motor built to cost and is therefore a better basis for high-powered mods?

I would imagine a flexing block is indicative of greater problems than sub-optimal horsepower production and you can probably sleeve a stock block if you want to reinforce the cylinders.

BigBlock440 > CalzoneGolem 02/13/2018 at 12:29

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Doubt it. One episode they built a 383 Chevy and a 383 Mopar with as close as possible head/intake/carb/cam specs and they made nearly identical power curves. I don’t imagine that the results would be any different with two of the same blocks.

BigBlock440 > DatassunTX 02/13/2018 at 12:31

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Person #2, at least as far as dyno run power is concerned. Different materials may have an effect on track day and hot lap performance, but for the initial power curves, nah.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > DatassunTX 02/13/2018 at 12:33

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If it’s lighter I’ll add power on the butt Dyno.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > DatassunTX 02/13/2018 at 12:36

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Not anything that can’t be negated by something silly like fuel quality being slightly different.

Grindintosecond > DatassunTX 02/13/2018 at 12:41

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Less flex? First, you need to be running enough power or rpm or both through it to create the flex. So, in that world, yes it would allow more boost or rpm if the aftermarket block is more rigid for the power. It could just be a lighter alloy block instead and not have any better rigidity. It all depends on the goal but if you’re just looking for a normally built engine for normal daily driving performance, i’m not sure the money spend would be worth the 5 extra WHP you will get at only the highest RPM where flexing would matter.

I heard Ford’s F1 V8 engine from the 90's would see cylinder banks shifting back and forth at extreme RPM with harmonics and then shed any belts it used. But again, exceptional compression and RPM harmonics are involved.

Is the stock block is flexing and robbing power at 3,000 rpm in the city?

Alfalfa > DatassunTX 02/13/2018 at 12:43

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I mean, vibration is power loss. The degree in this case is probably negligible. The real advantage of a better block is taking better advantage of all your other aftermarket parts.

DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time > DatassunTX 02/13/2018 at 12:45

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I would imagine any differences would be negligible. I was always under the impression the point of aftermarket blocks was better reliability for engines making much more over stock. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of someone using an aftermarket block for more power (unless it was higher displacement or something, obviously.)

sony1492 > DatassunTX 02/13/2018 at 12:52

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I’d imagine the power gains from one of these blocks would be from the better quality of oil and coolant passages. The systems would be able to work slightly more efficiently and may be you’d see a hp or two from that. I thought the real gains were in additional strength allowing the block to handle more rpm and/or torque.

Future next gen S2000 owner > DatassunTX 02/13/2018 at 12:53

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Tighter piston to cylinder wall will produce more power. Less gas is lost around the edges. Partly why F1 cars make so much power - very small clearances.

That being said. Exactly how much flex is less flex? Rings, heads, how it is built will all affect hp more than less cylinder flex.

So technically yes, but real world gains are most likely minimal. You are more likely to see better cooling if the aftermarket block has been upgraded over the existing design.

If hp is the ultimate goal, I think the hp/$ ratio is better used elsewhere.

TahoeSTi > DatassunTX 02/13/2018 at 12:57

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aluminum runs cooler so you might be able to add timing. I know it’s true for aluminum vs iron heads....maybe the same for a block.....but the block isn’t what added power the tune added power.

vondon302 > DatassunTX 02/13/2018 at 13:01

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I think your buying durability not horsepower. Stock Ford 302 castings (non modular) come apart a t about 500 hp but you go all forged and power added they’ll make a ton more than that.

winterlegacy, here 'till the end > DatassunTX 02/13/2018 at 13:14

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I’d say the only reason to get an aftermarket block is because you nuked your block already, or the block actually has reworks that make sense for an extremely high-power application.

Otherwise the rest of it is just unsubstantiated nonsense.

tromoly > DatassunTX 02/13/2018 at 15:03

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The block on its own with stock components won’t give any extra power. But an improved block can give the potential for more power to be made before catastrophic block failure, that’s why they’re used.

DatassunTX > Nibby 02/22/2018 at 21:57

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I don’t it’s very very loud.